Minh Le, otherwise known as Gooseman, the legendary co-creator of Counter-Strike spoke on becoming a fan of the pro scene again, his new game Alpha Response, and why he is proud to see CS2 thriving. He has backed Falcons to bring Vitality’s era of dominance to an end if they can continue to splash the cash on top-tier players like donk in the first of 2 parts of exclusive interview with Thunderpick.
The veteran developer also spoke of his pride at seeing the growth of Counter-Strike into the esport that it has become and praised iconic players such as FalleN and ZywOo for their impact on the scene and how far they can push the game. Gooseman also voiced his excitement about the future of CS2 as an international format amid ongoing hopes that esports could one day become established as a permanent part of the Olympics.
How would you compare your experience to attending Majors as a fan to the spectacle of traditional sports events?
Minh Le: I do watch hockey and I’ve attended some hockey games in Canada and I would say the attendance levels were definitely on par with that. I think that there’s definitely a community out there and a growing fanbase. I don’t think it’s reached the level of relevancy as traditional sports but I think there’s definitely growth in that area. I wouldn’t be surprised if in the next 25 years we’ll see even more tournaments and more leagues.
I do watch the tier one pro scene of Counter-Strike and they play a lot; on average, they would play like 12 or 13 tournaments. That’s quite a fair amount, that’s quite a lot, but it’s really great to see.
The one thing I lament and feel regret about is that I wish there was more skill in the North American talent pool because right now when I look at Counter-Strike, it’s mainly South America and Eastern Europe and maybe some parts of Western Europe. That to me is kind of interesting as to why that is.
Perhaps it’s because of its longevity, and it’s kind of taken this long for Counter-Strike to really make its foothold in those regions, because I guess in North America we played Counter-Strike about 20 years ago and now they kind of moved on to like Call of Duty. I’ve always found it interesting that Counter-Strike has found its success, its popularity in those particular regions.
Would you love to see CS2 and other esports titles become events in the Olympics?
Minh Le: I’d love to see it. I know the Esports Nations Cup is being held in Saudi Arabia and that’s a start. I personally think it’d be great to see more coverage of esports and obviously, it would really help grow the sport as well, and you’d see more participation. I think it’d be great. I think it’d be really good for the sport and just the community in general.
Who are your favorite players on the pro scene? Do you find any players particularly satisfying to watch based on how they interpret the ideas you put into your original vision for Counter-Strike?
Minh Le: I keep my eyes on the top teams. Players like donk are really fun to watch. There’s always moments where he will do something that only he can do but also ZywOo and just Vitality in general. They have such great players. All of them, to be honest, like ropz, flameZ, mezii and apEX.
I’ve just been enjoying watching all of them. There’s not one particular player that I really zone in on but it’s been fun to watch. I do wish that there was a bit more competition because right now it seems like Vitality is dominating. I’ve always liked watching matches that have the potential for upsets. But it just seems in recent times for Vitality it has just been so difficult to beat in an upset.
Right now I feel like they’re in their era. In order for someone to top them, it would be quite difficult. There are a few teams that are close, though. I watch Falcons and Team Spirit and Furia as well. They’re all right up there. But I think they’re just missing that one player to really put them over the edge.
I remember last year when Vitality signed ropz, they just went on this run. I think he was the missing key for them.
The MongolZ have been hailed as a team that play in a different style, maybe more in keeping with the soul of the older Counter-Strike scene?
Minh Le: I love the fact that they’re an Asian team. It’s great to see that representation from the region.
I’m a big fan of their play style and I like how they’re very aggressive and unpredictable. I was a bit sad when Senzu got benched but hopefully they’ll turn it around this year and we can see some better results from them.
I love watching them as well. I like their story that they came from such humble roots. They’re still very young, so I think there’s a lot of room for them to improve.
What is it that makes ZywOo compelling as a player for you to watch?
Minh Le: It’s always great to see someone with that level of reaction time and how he’s able to assess the situation, and the fact that he’s good at so many different weapons, he’s not just an AWPer. I just kind of enjoy watching that and seeing him push the game to its limits.
I was pretty good when I made the game but to be honest if I were to play esports back when I was playing the game, I would probably have been considered a tier 2 player. I don’t think I would ever reach tier 1 skill-wise.
I was more of an entry fragger though, so my role would probably be more something like flameZ. I never really liked AWP-ing. I never liked sniping because I never had the patience for that.
What’s it like watching someone like donk from your perspective as the creator of the original Counter-Strike? Is it compelling to see players do the unexpected and try things you might not have realised were possible?
Minh Le: From a developer standpoint, the fact that I’ve been so away from the game for so long, I don’t really have too many feelings towards that but I do feel that Valve, what they do is they tend to be very laissez-faire, they kind of let the community go about their things.
But it’s interesting to note that there was one time when there was an AWPer who was so good that he forced them to change the way the AWP mechanics work because he was kind of like, not abusing it, but he was so good at it that it became kind of unfair. So it’s interesting that Valve would actually kind of respond to that and kind of nerf the AWP so players like that couldn’t really take it to such a level.
Hopefully, they don’t do the same thing with donk. I don’t think there’s much you can do to nerf the game to make it any harder for donk.
It’s almost the greatest honor to have the developers try and nerf your play style isn’t it?
Minh Le: Yes, exactly. So far Valve have been pretty hands off.
Do you have a view on peeker’s advantage and if that’s an issue to fix or is it just a fundamental kind of texture to how the Source 2 engine kind of handles networking?
That’s just something that, from a technical standpoint, as a developer, there’s not a lot we can do to alleviate that or remove it.
I think there are a few things that they try to implement but at the end of the day there’s nothing you can do about network latency. Our hands are tied. This is something we’ve got to live with. But I’ve always found it interesting that if they can, they take advantage of it in online games but when they go to the LAN center, you know, they still have to be pretty good. I mean, I think it can only take them so far because most of the major tournaments are happening offline.
I imagine that [players like XANTARES] have to be good even though he does take advantage of it in the offline scenario, in the online scenario.
Is part of the beauty of your original vision for Counter-Strike that even when you have incredible individuals like NiKo, one great player isn’t enough to win the biggest prizes?
Minh Le: There are moments where a single player can do an ace or just pull out clutch moments but I think for the most part Counter-Strike is a team-focused game, and if you’re trying to win 13 rounds, you can’t just rely on one player doing it all.
And that’s why we see Vitality and their consistency. It’s because of the makeup of their team. They have too many players that can really step up their game. Whereas other teams, there might be only two or three guys that can maybe go on a run like that. I think Counter-Strike is a game that can really just encourage that team aspect and not just be a game where one player can really carry the entire team.
GeT_RiGhT has been credited for almost inventing the lurker role at the top level but is that play style something you ever envisioned being part of the game?
Minh Le: Oh for sure. When I was playing myself, there was always a person that would always try to flank, like myself. I would try to flank, and we designed the maps in such a way that it allowed for such a play style.
It was definitely something that was intended and something that we wanted players to be aware of because it really keeps you alert. You are never really safe and you have to always be cautious of multiple angles of entry. I think that’s one of the beauties of Counter-Strike. It’s just the amount of strategy involved in it. You have your individual skill where you have to aim your mouse but there’s a great deal of strategy that comes into play in order to really succeed at the game.
Given the size of the Brazilian scene, is there an argument that FalleN is not only one of the most important figures in the game’s history, but maybe in all of e-sports, arguably?
Minh Le: Yeah because I think he’s done so much for Counter-Strike that I feel like he definitely has a huge part to play in the success in the South American regions.
I kind of regret not watching the esports scene in the early days because I only just started watching a couple of years ago, so I wasn’t around to watch FalleN in those older days. I wasn’t around to see the Astralis era and the time when the Swedes were really good, like NiP and Fnatic. I kind of regret not watching that and not being more involved in the esports scene in those days because I missed out on those really amazing memories.
Watching FalleN play recently, it’s really just been amazing to see someone with such longevity. It’s nice. It’s amazing that he can still do this at such a mature age.